Supertraining

Damien,
Although I may have questioned your good sense in the past, during our
discussions on micronutritional supplementation,

We rarely think people have good sense unless they agree with us.
 - Francois de La Rochefoucauld (1613 - 1680)

just as I disagreed with Linda, I have recently found myself in
complete agreement with her, (on the subject of rest between sets) in
which she articulated my exact position on the subject. Now I find
myself in the same situation with you, in that you have posited an
extremely accurate account of my position on this subject. However, I
have a bit more to add:

Aaron,
140 lb squats indeed! My female cheerleaders squat at least 100 lbs
more than that! My prep school football players, most of whom played
both sides of the ball and always against bigger opponents, were
generally able to squat double body weight and I had two sophomores
who established the school record when they each leg pressed 1200 lbs
for 24 reps. Almost all of them could C&J bodyweight.
Get real. All you did was prevent those athletes from coming anywhere
near their athletic potential. If you intend to continue to work with
prep school athletes, particularly football players, I suggest you
contact Mike Burgener, strength coach for Rancho Buena Vista High here
in San Diego. He can be reached through his web site, which would be a
good place for you to start learning how to properly strength training
prep school athletes:

mikesgym.org

Two of Mike's sons and many other prep school multi-sport athletes of
both genders have become Jr. National Weightlifting Champions under
Mike's guidance. I can't accurately tell you how many of his kids have
gone to college on athletic scholarships, dozens? Mike's #1 son Casey,
C&J's 480 lbs at a bodyweight of 250 lbs. Peruse the site, you'll
learn a lot about the true athletic potential of properly trained prep
school athletes.
In response to your engaging in what is known in logic as "arguing
from authority" let me do the same and give you a little bit of Mike's
curriculum vitae:

Senior International Coach, USAW
Member of USAW Olympic Weightlifting Team coaching staff Atlanta '96
Head Coach of the Jr Women's Weightlifting Team
MS, Exercise physiology
Capt. USMC retired (10 yrs Force Recon)
Former jr. national record holder in the Olympic press (400 lbs at 220
lb bodyweight, if memory serves)
Linebacker for National Champion Notre Dame football team (1968)

I could go on but I think you've got the idea, Mike's a tremendous
resource for all things involving resistance training. For example,
check out this interview on kettle bell training:

http://www.dragondoor.com/success_stories/CoachBurgener.html

Aaron I will leave you with these two thoughts,

Unless you believe, you will not understand.
 - Saint Augustine

Believe one who has proved it. Believe an expert.
 - Virgil

W.G.Johnson
Ubermensch Sports Consultancy
San Diego, CA.



--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], boxeraugust <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> This is quite funny,  I was reading this and  thought to myself that
Aaron Forbes has been around Scherger for too long as he is now
writing just like him. I actually noticed this on a few posts
following this ridiculous back talk again.
>
> Aaron, your post regarding the high school football team going 12-0.
While that is a wonderful achievement it really does not provide a
verification of your system of training the "proper spinal position".
I actually chuckle at the part regarding the notion that no one squats
over 140lbs. You have a pathetically weak football team. The time that
is spent on trying to make a claim about having your or Scherger's
ideal of posture and being able to produce bigger impacts when hitting
and being able to play better in the the fourth quarter are funny.
The production of a powerful hit and or a driving block are first a
matter of proper positioning of the body (technique), body mass,
speed, power.and such. The more FUNCTIONAL MASS  that a player has the
greater the ability to produce force and therefore coupled with proper
technique the better able to deliver a large impact or driving block.
I know that you and Mr. Scherger are into simple examples so here is
one; Your player who
>  Squats a max of 140# and lets say weighs 200# runs into a player
who squats 400# and deadlifts 400# and weighs 200# they meet without
either having a positional advantage and share the same level of
technical skills the stronger player will more than likely win. He is
stronger, can generate more power or transmit greater force to the
ground which in turn will produce the ability to drive the weaker
player backwards. He most likely will be faster as he is stronger and
that would provide the ability to move his mass at a faster rate of
speed which in turn produces a greater impact than a player of the
same weight who is slower. This is really simple physics. The idea of
lasting well into the fourth quarter is a state of CONDITIONING not
whether one is of proper spinal posture. Your argument that this would
affect the players conditioning is poor. The human body adapts very
well with what it is presented to work with, if a person who is not of
"ideal" posture trains and
>  conditions regularly with that posture the body adapts at being in
condition with that posture.
>
> I believe you also mentioned your background as a collegiate
football player and your lifting history. This really means nothing.
Go into any gym in the country or for that matter some college level
strength programs and , even in this day and age, you will see an
amazing number of idiotic things being taught to or used by players.
If  you are  aware of the strength coaching community you will see
that there are some very successful independent strength coaches who
are sought out by athletes of various sports to enhance their strength
and conditioning. You would also find that  these coaches are very
interested in a well balanced athlete who is functionally strong at
all joints. They are also interested in making the athlete as strong
as possible ie :big deadlift ( or at least some form of one), a big
squat ( or at least some form of one) and so forth.
>
> Did you ever stop to think that the only thing in your program that
helped was the fact that you made the kids lift in a complex or
circuit fashion and that this was actually a form of conditioning that
aided them to be better.
>
> It is obvious that your selling a system to parents who like to hear
medical terminology to feel good but the fact remains that everywhere
else kids are involved in training programs that make them
tremendously strong and this leads to better performance on any field
of play.
>
> Louie Simmons said it best at a seminar " If you put eleven weak
players on the field against eleven strong players the weak ones will
get their asses kicked every time."
>
> Damien Chiappini
> Pittsburgh, PA.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Aaron Forbes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:27:39 AM
> Subject: [Supertraining] Re: Ideal Spinal Posture: Equilibrium truer
then Balance
>
> --- In Supertraining@ yahoogroups. com, "chris eastham" <chris@>
> wrote:We've surely moved a long way forward from Florence kendalls
> day, but even> then they understood that posture is about a state of
> balance. And we all know from attempting to balance a backetball on
> the tip of our finger, that it involves constant adjustment.
>
> ****
> Chris your illustration of balancing a basketball relative to say
> the spine producing force to stand upright is not mechanically
> appropriate.
>
> It would be more truly stated this way. We all know from
> attempting to balance the person opposite us on a teeter totter how
> it involves constant adjustment.
>
> AS your Dr Alan Walmsley stated: " On the topic of neutral posture
> that even if the spine appears to be maintaining a stable neutral
> posture, the individual vertebrae will be moving around and
> constantly adjusting independently of one another. This constant
> adjustment will be vary widely from person to person
>
> When you stand upright, moving into neutral posture each vertebra
> must be extended or moved on the one below to achieve the upright
> posture. Each on these vertebra must reach not a balance but an
> equilibrium that from the outside as Dr. Walmsley said appears to be
> a stable posture but is not.
>
> What important about neutral spine position relative to the posture
> it can achieve is that the properly adapted S-shape posture will
> assume a neutral spine position that will possess for the human a
> better mechanical advantage to achieve and maintain upright posture
> then the poorer adapted postures.
>
> Both good and poor postures will have to adapt changes. The
> importance of proper posture is that when standing it will take less
> muscle effort and less strain on the discs to do it.
>
> Lets look at the Teeter totter again examining the difference
> between good and poor posture.
>
> You have a individual with a 100 lb trunk with properly adapted
> posture. When achieving upright posture their center of mass
> (relative to a vertebra being extended)is a distance of 1x from the
> fulcrum point of the teeter totter.
>
> Next you have a person with poor posture. When they achieve
> upright posture their center of mass (relative to a vertebra being
> extended) is a distance of 3x from the fulcrum point of the
> vertebral tetter totter.
>
> Both tetter totters take constant adjustments to keep in
> equilbirium. Now which tetter totter system would you want? The
> one with the weight 1x from the fulcrum or the one that has weight
> that is a 3x distance from the fulcrum?
>
> It should be obvious or a no brainer that you want the one that can
> move the weight a distance of 1x from the fulcrum. It will take
> less weight or your force on your part to control the weight when it
> is a distance of 1x from the fulcrum then 3x.
>
> Their will be half the force being created at the fulcrum point in
> the good posture versus the poor posture and so your parts like the
> disc will last longer.
>
> John Scherger
> Ridgefield Washington
>
> [**Mod: Any particular reason why you have signed your message as
John Scherger using Aaron Forbes' email?**]
>