Supertraining

It is here I'd like to relate my experience with the Overhead squat and Mel's 
recommendation for a fellow powerlifter who had a problem to solve.

In association with Mel teaching the snatch, he used the OH squat as a teaching 
tool and yes, a method to check your foot positioning and balance.  For 
example, right after he had me do my first full snatch of 60 kg (132 lbs), he 
had me Overhead Squat this.  I managed to do this successfully but I remember 
looking at him like he'd gone insane first <GRIN>  which did NOT get me out of 
doing the darned OH sq...he gave me his best "Russian coach" stone face....  So 
this would support the point Dan has made below regarding its application in 
weightlifting.  Mel's point was that if my foot positioning and balance were 
good in that snatch, I should be able to execute a proper OH squat right there, 
without a shift in feet or anything else.  Clearly this is not intended to be 
loaded like a  back squat! but then, OL is using less weight than PL in such 
efforts generally and an OH squat could be done with a dowel of zero weight and 
still prove the basic POINT!

With regard to Dan's other points, I will say there was a specific correcting 
application for a PL I brought to Mel with a problem.  The PL had an awkward 
and somewhat dangerous habit of shifting his weight from his heels to his TOES 
in the hole! thus getting him dangerously forward and at one point, throwing 
him onto his knees and the bar onto the spotter!  Mel's recommendation was for 
this PL to do OH squats in a warmup - so he did.  The PL took up 95 lb OH 
squats (he was a 198'er and had a max squat in wraps and belt of 500) and this 
caused him to correct the problem that had brought a very frightening moment on 
the floor and a injury to a good friend.

So there is 1 application I am aware of for the OH squat in a sport other than 
Olymic Weightlifting.  It's another iron sport....and it's for a specific 
problem.  Otherwise it's an occasionally fun move and certainly not to be 
performed like you would a back squat, with an escalating weight and for 
strength!

All this being said, I think lifters would be wiser to focus more on the 
snatch, c&j, squat, deadlift etc for strength gain and use the OH squat as a 
fun variation or to train the person to stay on heels....it's mostly a balance 
move.

The Phantom
aka Linda Schaefer, CMT, CSCS, competing powerlifter
Denver, Colorado, USA



-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Dan Partelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
1. Overhead squats are NOT done as a replacement for leg strength, and
they aint intended to replace other types of squat.

2. Competitive weightlifting ... just think at the technical snatch
lift, to see the potential value of overhead squat in training. Can
you now see the link with weightlifting ? 

3. Weightlifting excluded, there is no major advantage of including
overhead squats in special strength training for other sports. Does
not present any special advantages over other lifts. It may
be part of GPP, if you really want. 

Dan Partelly
Oradea, Romania

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Anthony Pitruzzello"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I can see why someone might want to do overhead squats as a general
> conditioning exercise, which may be the point of the discussion
here. The
> problem I see with it is that it is a pretty radical compromise;
i.e., you
> are squatting much less than you could if you did some variation of
"normal"
> squat (squat, box squat, front squat, etc.) and you are working the
upper
> body with less intensity than you could if you concentrated on a
movement
> like the press. So, for the purposes of body building or
competitive weight
> lifting, I would think the overhead squat would be relatively
ineffective.
> However, as I said earlier, I can see how it might be beneficial for
overall
> athletic conditioning. Is that the generally accepted value of the
overhead
> squat, or am I missing something?
> 
> Anthony Pitruzzello
> Chicago, Illinois
> 
> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 1:59 PM, John Cowell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > In my opinion, if you need boards under your heels to get adequately
> > deep in the overhead squat, you likely have ankle flexibility issues.
> > Second, what we've seen also as an obstacle is inadequate thoracic
> > mobility rather than shoulder inflexibility. The more kyphotic the
> > posture, the harder overhead movements become on the shoulder.
> > Interestingly, Chad Waterbury just wrote on this subject today on t-
> > nation.com (
> > http://www.t-nation.com/article/most_recent/first_person_waterbury
> > ). Good luck.
> >
> > John Cowell
> > Raleigh, NC
> >
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > > From: "wayne crowley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <waynecrowley%40gmail.com>
> > >
> > > Date: May 5, 2008 1:44:38 PM EDT