Supertraining

--- On Wed, 5/21/08, phillip g <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> From: phillip g <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Max heart rate
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Wednesday, May 21, 2008, 2:12 PM
> There is nothing misused by the formula I posted. 220-age is
> the maximum hear rate that most people can achieve without
> significant cardiac events. 

In a normal healthy individual with normal coronary HR is not a determinate of 
cardiac events.  In an individual with abnormal coronaries there is no HR 
target which will guarantee no significant cardiac events.  


Without knowing anything else
> about his clients medical history, it's the best
> formula to use as a predictor of cardiac output. 

Cardiac output is determined by a number of factors other than HR and the 
formula is not powered to determine cardiac output. 

Most
> individuals do NOT have a MHR significantly higher than
> that formula, and I'd challenge to provide eveidence to
> the contrary. 

The formula was designed to help cardiologists determine a maximum HR for 
cardiac patients who would be undergoing stress test to determine if they might 
have coronary artery disease.  Once they determine the theoretical max they 
then stress them to about 70% of max( I am not exactly sure of the number but 
vaguely that is the number that jumps out based on the stress tests my patients 
have had).  It is purposely designed to be low rather than high. 

MHR will vary between people, and athletes who
> have trained in aerobic training extensively over many years
> will not see a significant decrease in MHR over time and
> will often maintain the same peak MHR throughout their
> training life ( a MHR similar to a young adult male). 

Training does not increase maximum HR.  Actually according to Stephen Seiler 
PHD  training may actually cause max HR to decrease
Excerpt below
****************************************************
"The initiation of activity results first in a withdrawal of the 
parasympathetic stimulation (up to a heart rate of about 100) followed by an 
increase in sympathetic stimulation with more intense activity up to the 
maximum heart rate.  A number of studies have demonstrated that maximal heart 
rate actually tends to DECREASE with high volumes of endurance training.  The 
average of a number of studies is about a 7 beat reduction in maximal heart 
rate after training compared to the untrained state.   Anecdotally, it also 
appears that even in athletes, periods of very high volume can transiently 
cause a further reduction in the maximal heart rate, or perhaps more correctly 
a reduction in the capacity of the sympathetic nervous system to maximally 
mobilize the heart rate.  We have tested junior XC skiers before and after a 10 
day training camp filled with an abnormally (for them) high training volume.  
On average, the team showed a slight reduction in VO2 max
 despite being very fit, and their maximal heart rate during a VO2 max test was 
perhaps 4 beats per minute lower.  The athletes were very fit, but could not 
fully mobilize; the lacked that last gear.  After a few days of relative rest, 
they were back to normal.

Will Training Make My Maximal Heart Rate Increase?

The answer to this question has just been answered.  No, the maximum heart rate 
is not increased by training! As we get older, our maximum heart rate 
decreases. The major difference in the endurance trained heart is a bigger 
stroke volume. The trained heart gets bigger and pumps more blood each beat.  
So, that small reduction in maximal heart rate is more than compensated for by 
an increase in stroke volume.

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/hrtfacts.htm
********************************************************

Maximum HR is max HR period. Why one individual of a given age may have a 
higher max HR than another of the same age is probably genetic and not 
determined by exercise. 


But
> the segment of the population that trains regularly and
> intensly for long periods of time is a small portion of the
> population. For the vast majority of the population, the
> 220-age is a good guideline.
> 
> Phillip Garrison,CSCS
> Mesa,AZ


Setting up a training program using an artificially low estimated max HR will 
hinder an individuals improvement rather than help it. 

If a trainer is concerned about a client's cardiac status then the client 
should be advised to have a stress test before undertaking exercise of any 
intensity..

Ralph Giarnella MD 
Southington Ct USA 
> ====================
> 
> 
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wed, 21 May 2008 10:55:15
> -0700Subject: RE: [Supertraining] Max heart rate
> 
> Unfortunately the formula cited by Mr. Garrison has been
> misused by trainers for years. The formula was devised by
> two cardiologists who had done studies with regards to
> stress tests on a treadmill back in the 60s. They were on
> their way to a conference to present their findings and
> wanted to be able to tell the audience what the target max
> heart rate should be when testing cardiac patients on a
> stress test. They came up with the formula which is often
> cited by trainers and misused. Most individuals have a
> maximum HR which is much higher than what you will find
> using that formula.Maximum heart rate will vary between
> individuals irrespective of age. Two individuals the same
> age will most likely have different maximum HR.It will also
> vary depending on the type of activity being performed. The
> more muscle mass being used for a given activity will yield
> a higher maximum HR in the same individualMost people rarely
> achieve their maximum hr in training since the effort is
> generally very difficult. There are devised step tests for
> various activities designed to help an individual reach
> their max. Perhaps the best way is in competition when a
> person is not thinking about how they feel but are near the
> finish line. At 55 my maximum observed HR was 188 and was
> observed while using a HRM at the end of a hard bicycle
> race. My maximum at age 64 was 175 and was observed also
> during competitive rowing at the end of a 2 K TT. Ralph
> Giarnella MD Southington Ct USA --- On Wed, 5/21/08,
> phillip g <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> From:
> phillip g <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Subject: RE:
> [Supertraining] Max heart rate> To:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wednesday, May 21,
> 2008, 1:18 PM> Max heart rate is 220-age. So for a 40
> year old man the max> heart rate is 180> > Phillip
> Garrison, CSCS> Mesa, AZ> >
> ======================> To:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:22:03>
> +0000Subject: [Supertraining] Max heart rate> > I had
> a client ask a strange question the other day. His>
> question was "what is the max heart rate that a
> person> can maintain and sustain will working cardio
> conditioning> until the body will shut down." My
> educated guess was> 220. But know that the body will
> voluntarily slow down with> the fatigue and lactic acid
> overcoming the person. Has there> been any studies or a
> definite answers for this type of> performance.Thank you
> for you time on reading my> question.C. ChaneyLong
> Beach,CA, USA[Mod: Please don't> forget to sign your
> post with your full name - many thanks]> >
> ===========================