[SurroundSound] Re: foobar and SACD-Rs

The old thread on AVS:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1230824

On febr. 20, 19:36, realafrica <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> August what exactly is your DSD capable amp?
> There was a list here of all amps receivers that really did do DSD and
> those that did some foolery as you put it.
> Since Google made changes to it's G Groups we may not have it here any
> more, but we should have the list backed up over on HRON.
>
> On Feb 20, 5:03 pm, August Bleed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have a collection of about 100 SACDs.  They all play properly.  MC and
> > stereo.  In DSD.  While I cannot be certain there isn't some kind of
> > foolery going on internally in the amp, all indications say that it is
> > indeed outputting DSD and was in fact designed to do that.  It is one of
> > the reasons I bought it.  The Oppo was on a short list when I discovered MC
> > music and I had a Pioneer mid range model that wouldn't pump my B&Ws and
> > wouldn't play SACDs natively.  Again unless there is some foolery going on
> > all indications seem to point to it being a DSD capable receiver.
>
> > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:55 AM, August Bleed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Everything is OFF.  I honestly get DSD and what I need to do.  The
> > > software just doesn't do it.  The amp does just fine, the Oppo does just
> > > fine.  The room correction software has never given me satisfactory 
> > > results
> > > so only the most rudimentary stuff is running.  Set to Pure Mode.  No room
> > > EQ.  No EQ at all.  DSD capable receiver.  Oppo sounds better passing the
> > > DSD so I let it.  It shows as DSD on the amp.  It sounds noticeably
> > > different when I tell the Oppo to output PCM.  I don't think it would
> > > output DSD if something in the chain was incapable of handling it.  Or am 
> > > I
> > > really missing something?
>
> > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:09 AM, scolumbo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >> In most DSD capable receivers, if any EQ or room correction is
> > >> applied, the receiver will convert to PCM first. So, even if you are
> > >> outputting DSD from your player or soundcard, you must use a Direct or
> > >> similar setting in the receiver that bypasses any EQ, bass management,
> > >> etc.  For my room, SQ is improved using Audyssey so I prefer using DSD
> > >> converted to PCM and then having room correction applied versus DSD
> > >> direct to analog from the Oppo to my Denon 3808.
>
> > >> On Feb 18, 9:39 pm, August Bleed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> > Dunno about that.  Maybe on the software side.  DSD over HDMI is pretty
> > >> > much the only way you got it until recently other than analog. Then the
> > >> > Mytek.  Oppo does it just fine.  Sounds great and you can absolutely
> > >> tell
> > >> > btw that and a PCM.  Even on mid fi set up like mine.  I can imagine 
> > >> > the
> > >> > licensing of DSD itself is the killing point, not the hdmi 
> > >> > transmission.
>
> > >> > On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 6:22 PM, realafrica <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > Some better soundcard drivers often have DSP.
> > >> > > But I imagine there is all kind of CRM $h1t involved  with SACD 
> > >> > > output
> > >> > > over HDMI.
> > >> > > Hell, even an SACD capable PS3 will not output DSD without
> > >> > > downsampling it.
>
> > >> > > On Feb 18, 8:22 pm, ArnoldLayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> > > > Hmm, I think DSD output over HDMI is managed by DSP, if so the
> > >> > > > implementation is very low level stuff. Does somebody know more
> > >> about
> > >> > > > this? Do soundcards have a DSP or is it a motherboard feature?
>
> > >> > > > On 18 feb, 21:00, August Bleed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > I have a DSD capable receiver.  It just doesn't get passed as DSD
> > >> to
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > > > receiver using the software.  Only the mytek works as far as i
> > >> know.
>
> > >> > > > > On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 11:51 AM, ArnoldLayne <
> > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> > > >wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > Many DSD capable receivers and players give you the options ot
> > >> decode
> > >> > > > > > to PCM or not before converting to analog. One prerequisite is
> > >> that
> > >> > > it
> > >> > > > > > has a DAC that handle DSD. Both the Burr Brown 1796 in my
> > >> receiver
> > >> > > and
> > >> > > > > > ES9018 Sabre in my Oppo player are in this cathegory. So far
> > >> I've
> > >> > > > > > found the BB 1796 less inferior for SACD than for PCM sources.
>
> > >> > > > > > On 18 feb, 20:11, "Noreltny-gmail" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > Aren't most of the DSD capable receivers actually converting
> > >> the
> > >> > > DSD to
> > >> > > > > > PCM
> > >> > > > > > > on the fly? Isn't that what the Oppos do?
>
> > >> > > > > > > I think you might be able to get DSD playback from a
> > >> multichannel
> > >> > > USB
> > >> > > > > > DAC,
> > >> > > > > > > like the exaSound (http://www.exasound.com/), but it also
> > >> costs
> > >> > > more
> > >> > > > > > than
> > >> > > > > > > your AVR.
>
> > >> > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> > >> > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> > > > > > > On Behalf Of August Bleed
> > >> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 12:39 PM
> > >> > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: foobar and SACD-Rs
>
> > >> > > > > > > Thats what I thought and why I asked.  So the folks using
> > >> these
> > >> > > are only
> > >> > > > > > > getting stereo playback anyway correct?  Or is it similar to
> > >> > > bitstreaming
> > >> > > > > > > whereby the the DSD is sent similarly to DTS over spdif to 
> > >> > > > > > > get
> > >> > > > > > multichannel
> > >> > > > > > > where you'd previously only have 2 chan support?  I think
> > >> rather
> > >> > > > > > expensive
> > >> > > > > > > might be a slight understatement for me!  That baby is the
> > >> same
> > >> > > price as
> > >> > > > > > my
> > >> > > > > > > AVR!!  The whole point of the AVR (not ideal i get that) was
> > >> just
> > >> > > to be
> > >> > > > > > able
> > >> > > > > > > to not have to buy a dang DAC every 6 mos.  Plus I am a MC
> > >> guy...I
> > >> > > like
> > >> > > > > > > stereo but given the choice i'd obviously rather be listening
> > >> in 5
> > >> > > > > > channels.
> > >> > > > > > > Is there some technical limitation for this?  Given that
> > >> there are
> > >> > > lots
> > >> > > > > > of
> > >> > > > > > > DSD capable receivers out there it seems kinda strange that
> > >> the
> > >> > > signal
> > >> > > > > > > couldn't be passed over HDMI.  In fact, I would think that's
> > >> what
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > > > > > content providers would prefer as it is 'protected'.  Any
> > >> ideas
> > >> > > why this
> > >> > > > > > > can't happen?
>
> > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 10:07 AM, realafrica <
> > >> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> > > > > > wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > > You would need a Mytek sound card for the DSD they are rather
> > >> > > > > > > expensive.
>
> > >> > > > > > > On Feb 16, 11:42 pm, August Bleed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > > > > If you are using an HDMI sound card and a receiver that
> > >> does DSD
> > >> > > can
> > >> > > > > > you
> > >> > > > > > > > not output pure DSD or is this only for those with DSD DACs
> > >> via
> > >> > > USB
> > >> > > > > > and/or
> > >> > > > > > > > Firewire?  I am excited about these developments but it
> > >> seems
> > >> > > the only
> > >> > > > > > way
> > >> > > > > > > > to utilize these solutions is to have a usb DAC which
> > >> leaves out
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > > > > > > multichannel folks and those who aren't into converted DSD
> > >> to
> > >> > > PCM.  I
> > >> > > > > > > > haven't ever really been all that impressed with generic
> > >> results
> > >> > > from
> > >> > > > > > > > conversions done outside the 'studio' so to speak.  Even
> > >> then
> > >> > > they seem
> > >> > > > > > > > lacking the intricacies of their pure DSD counterparts
> > >> (even if
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > > > > > > receiver only does a so so job or even converted to PCM
> > >> > > > > > internally--mine
> > >> > > > > > > > claims to do pure DSD and it sounds different when PCM is
> > >> output
> > >> > > but I
> > >> > > > > > > cant
> > >> > > > > > > > be sure there isn't an internal conversion going on anyway.
> > >>  At
> > >> > > any
> > >> > > > > > rate
> > >> > > > > > > > has anyone found anything useful for AVR DSD reproduction
> > >> via
> > >> > > foobar or
> > >> > > > > > > > anything else?
>
> > >> > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:21 AM, realafrica <
> > >> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > > Peter in the scenario you describe above you will find
> > >> that
> > >> > > your
> > >> > > > > > > > > settings in foobar are to play 44.1 so you get 44.1 out
> > >> put.
> > >> > > > > > > > > You need to find the right place in foo to change this to
> > >> > > something
> > >> > > > > > > > > more appropriate for you.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > Open foo.
> > >> > > > > > > > > On the Library tab left click and select Configure, now
> > >> scroll
> > >> > > down
> > >> > > > > > > > > the left pane to find 'SACD'.....left click this and set
> > >> with:
> > >> > > > > > > > > ASIO Driver mode = PCM (As you are not using a DSD sound
> > >> card)
> > >> > > > > > > > > PCM volume = +0dB
> > >> > > > > > > > > PCM Samplerate = either 88200 (or 176400 if you think the
> > >> > > album you
> > >> > > > > > > > > are playing has music up there)
> > >> > > > > > > > > DSD"PCM Mode = Multistage (Floating-point)
> > >> > > > > > > > > Preferable area = to show you in foo the 5.1 only track
> > >> or the
> > >> > > stereo
> > >> > > > > > > > > only
> > >> > > > > > > > > Edited Master Playback =  tick/check selected
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > On Feb 16, 2:09 pm, "Peter Cawthron" <
> > >> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > >> > > > > > > > > > I found it via this group. See:
>
> > >> > >http://groups.google.com/group/surroundsound/browse_thread/thread/2d3.
> > >> > > > > > ..
> > >> > > > > > > > > > 795dc1
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > P.
>
> > >> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>
> ...
>
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>
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