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Re: [SurroundSound] Re: foobar and SACD-Rs August Bleed Tue Feb 21 16:01:03 2012

You would think if a receiver touts that as a feature they would think to
actually include the feature.  Not complaining about the fake DSD.
 Actually sounds good.  And better than when I have the Oppo do PCM.  Go
figure.  A fake DSD that sounds better than PCM.  Well, I do get the
benefit of the light coming on for DSD recordings, even if it apparently is
meaningless!

On Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 12:36 PM, ArnoldLayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> The Burr Borwn PCM1680 is unfortunately not handling DSD signals:
>
> http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1680.pdf
>
> That is, it has to be transcoded to PCM before reaching the DAC of
> your receiver.
>
>
> On 21 feb, 03:04, August Bleed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > This is what the Chinese have to say:
> >   Digital audio decoding circuitry and digital video circuit in the same
> > circuit board. Multi-channel and two channel decoding, bass management, *
> > space* <http://av.diguo.hk/index.php?action-tag-tagid-111> to deal with
> the
> > digital sound field processing (
> > *YAMAHA*<http://av.diguo.hk/index.php?action-tag-tagid-122> Cinema
> > DSPs) are solely responsible for the TI and YAMAHA technology cooperation
> > of TMS320070YE the, 32-bit floating-point arithmetic chip, decoding and
> > other digital disposed The signal sent's Burr-Brown PCM1680 (192kHz/24bit
> > six-channel Delta-Sigma DAC) a comprehensive and balanced analog
> converter. The
> > audio amplifier section, This machine adopts SANYO power amplifier
> modules:
> > seven channels, including one the STK 433-330 (three-channel modules) and
> > two STK 433-130 (two-channel modules) Total per sound Road, the same
> output
> > power. EI transformer power supply power supply circuit is used, the use
> of
> > low-noise news, fast Schottky diodes for rectification, filter capacitors
> > are Nippon CHEMI-CON, custom YAMAHA the two 6800μF/63V electrolytic
> > capacitors. From the perspective of the overall circuit
> > *design*<http://av.diguo.hk/index.php?action-tag-tagid-42> ,
> > the machine continues YAMAHA has always been The ToP-of ART concept:
> focus
> > on the sound purity, selection of high-quality components andcircuit
> > configurations (to shorten the signal and power paths).
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 5:42 PM, August Bleed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > > FWIW I went on a LOT of AV sites to try to figure out exactly what is
> > > residing in my 2065.  I found some Russian sites that were the only
> ones
> > > that seem to have any kind of info like this on AVRs.  Needless to say
> the
> > > translation wasn't all that good. So the confusion is mostly mine.
>  Some
> > > have it that there is some kind of DSD chip in there.  I can't seem to
> > > figure out the DAC from my search.  There is a pretty good
> differentiation
> > > btw DSD and PCM in terms of SQ if my unit is in fact lying and putting
> out
> > > PCM while claiming to do DSD.  I find that kinda weird if I've been
> > > listening to PCM all this time why the DSD stuff sounds so good
> compared to
> > > PCM flacs from say HDtracks or what have you.  One would think my amp
> would
> > > do a much less capable job than what they use.  Anyway I dunno if this
> is
> > > something anyone else knows about but I would love to know what's
> going on.
> > >  If it isn't a DSD capable rec. it is doing a pretty good job of
> disguising
> > > itself as one.  Really.  Its night and day from PCM.
> >
> > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 5:34 PM, August Bleed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > >> No I just sorta assumed the next model down would likely contain the
> same
> > >> dac with slightly different implementation.  There is some
> disagreement
> > >> whether this has the 1680, the 1681 or the 17--series of DACs.  The
> service
> > >> manual I found doesn't seem to go into detail on those particular
> parts but
> > >> its a pretty big list.
> >
> > >> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 5:23 PM, realafrica <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >wrote:
> >
> > >>> It does not seem to list this Yamaha model, or did I miss it, on that
> > >>> very verbose list?
> >
> > >>> On Feb 20, 8:29 pm, grill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>> > The old thread on AVS:
> > >>>http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1230824
> >
> > >>> > On febr. 20, 19:36, realafrica <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >>> > > August what exactly is your DSD capable amp?
> > >>> > > There was a list here of all amps receivers that really did do
> DSD
> > >>> and
> > >>> > > those that did some foolery as you put it.
> > >>> > > Since Google made changes to it's G Groups we may not have it
> here
> > >>> any
> > >>> > > more, but we should have the list backed up over on HRON.
> >
> > >>> > > On Feb 20, 5:03 pm, August Bleed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >>> > > > I have a collection of about 100 SACDs.  They all play
> properly.
> > >>>  MC and
> > >>> > > > stereo.  In DSD.  While I cannot be certain there isn't some
> kind
> > >>> of
> > >>> > > > foolery going on internally in the amp, all indications say
> that
> > >>> it is
> > >>> > > > indeed outputting DSD and was in fact designed to do that.  It
> is
> > >>> one of
> > >>> > > > the reasons I bought it.  The Oppo was on a short list when I
> > >>> discovered MC
> > >>> > > > music and I had a Pioneer mid range model that wouldn't pump my
> > >>> B&Ws and
> > >>> > > > wouldn't play SACDs natively.  Again unless there is some
> foolery
> > >>> going on
> > >>> > > > all indications seem to point to it being a DSD capable
> receiver.
> >
> > >>> > > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:55 AM, August Bleed <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>> > > > > Everything is OFF.  I honestly get DSD and what I need to do.
> > >>>  The
> > >>> > > > > software just doesn't do it.  The amp does just fine, the
> Oppo
> > >>> does just
> > >>> > > > > fine.  The room correction software has never given me
> > >>> satisfactory results
> > >>> > > > > so only the most rudimentary stuff is running.  Set to Pure
> > >>> Mode.  No room
> > >>> > > > > EQ.  No EQ at all.  DSD capable receiver.  Oppo sounds better
> > >>> passing the
> > >>> > > > > DSD so I let it.  It shows as DSD on the amp.  It sounds
> > >>> noticeably
> > >>> > > > > different when I tell the Oppo to output PCM.  I don't think
> it
> > >>> would
> > >>> > > > > output DSD if something in the chain was incapable of
> handling
> > >>> it.  Or am I
> > >>> > > > > really missing something?
> >
> > >>> > > > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 8:09 AM, scolumbo <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> wrote:
> >
> > >>> > > > >> In most DSD capable receivers, if any EQ or room correction
> is
> > >>> > > > >> applied, the receiver will convert to PCM first. So, even if
> > >>> you are
> > >>> > > > >> outputting DSD from your player or soundcard, you must use a
> > >>> Direct or
> > >>> > > > >> similar setting in the receiver that bypasses any EQ, bass
> > >>> management,
> > >>> > > > >> etc.  For my room, SQ is improved using Audyssey so I prefer
> > >>> using DSD
> > >>> > > > >> converted to PCM and then having room correction applied
> versus
> > >>> DSD
> > >>> > > > >> direct to analog from the Oppo to my Denon 3808.
> >
> > >>> > > > >> On Feb 18, 9:39 pm, August Bleed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >>> > > > >> > Dunno about that.  Maybe on the software side.  DSD over
> HDMI
> > >>> is pretty
> > >>> > > > >> > much the only way you got it until recently other than
> > >>> analog. Then the
> > >>> > > > >> > Mytek.  Oppo does it just fine.  Sounds great and you can
> > >>> absolutely
> > >>> > > > >> tell
> > >>> > > > >> > btw that and a PCM.  Even on mid fi set up like mine.  I
> can
> > >>> imagine the
> > >>> > > > >> > licensing of DSD itself is the killing point, not the hdmi
> > >>> transmission.
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 6:22 PM, realafrica <
> > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> > > > >> wrote:
> > >>> > > > >> > > Some better soundcard drivers often have DSP.
> > >>> > > > >> > > But I imagine there is all kind of CRM $h1t involved
>  with
> > >>> SACD output
> > >>> > > > >> > > over HDMI.
> > >>> > > > >> > > Hell, even an SACD capable PS3 will not output DSD
> without
> > >>> > > > >> > > downsampling it.
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > On Feb 18, 8:22 pm, ArnoldLayne <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>> > > > >> > > > Hmm, I think DSD output over HDMI is managed by DSP,
> if
> > >>> so the
> > >>> > > > >> > > > implementation is very low level stuff. Does somebody
> > >>> know more
> > >>> > > > >> about
> > >>> > > > >> > > > this? Do soundcards have a DSP or is it a motherboard
> > >>> feature?
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > On 18 feb, 21:00, August Bleed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> wrote:
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > I have a DSD capable receiver.  It just doesn't get
> > >>> passed as DSD
> > >>> > > > >> to
> > >>> > > > >> > > the
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > receiver using the software.  Only the mytek works
> as
> > >>> far as i
> > >>> > > > >> know.
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 11:51 AM, ArnoldLayne <
> > >>> > > > >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>> > > > >> > > >wrote:
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > Many DSD capable receivers and players give you
> the
> > >>> options ot
> > >>> > > > >> decode
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > to PCM or not before converting to analog. One
> > >>> prerequisite is
> > >>> > > > >> that
> > >>> > > > >> > > it
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > has a DAC that handle DSD. Both the Burr Brown
> 1796
> > >>> in my
> > >>> > > > >> receiver
> > >>> > > > >> > > and
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > ES9018 Sabre in my Oppo player are in this
> cathegory.
> > >>> So far
> > >>> > > > >> I've
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > found the BB 1796 less inferior for SACD than for
> PCM
> > >>> sources.
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > On 18 feb, 20:11, "Noreltny-gmail" <
> > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > Aren't most of the DSD capable receivers
> actually
> > >>> converting
> > >>> > > > >> the
> > >>> > > > >> > > DSD to
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > PCM
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > on the fly? Isn't that what the Oppos do?
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > I think you might be able to get DSD playback
> from a
> > >>> > > > >> multichannel
> > >>> > > > >> > > USB
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > DAC,
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > like the exaSound (http://www.exasound.com/),
> but
> > >>> it also
> > >>> > > > >> costs
> > >>> > > > >> > > more
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > than
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > your AVR.
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > On Behalf Of August Bleed
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 12:39 PM
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [SurroundSound] Re: foobar and
> SACD-Rs
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > Thats what I thought and why I asked.  So the
> folks
> > >>> using
> > >>> > > > >> these
> > >>> > > > >> > > are only
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > getting stereo playback anyway correct?  Or is
> it
> > >>> similar to
> > >>> > > > >> > > bitstreaming
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > whereby the the DSD is sent similarly to DTS
> over
> > >>> spdif to get
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > multichannel
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > where you'd previously only have 2 chan
> support?  I
> > >>> think
> > >>> > > > >> rather
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > expensive
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > might be a slight understatement for me!  That
> baby
> > >>> is the
> > >>> > > > >> same
> > >>> > > > >> > > price as
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > my
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > AVR!!  The whole point of the AVR (not ideal i
> get
> > >>> that) was
> > >>> > > > >> just
> > >>> > > > >> > > to be
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > able
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > to not have to buy a dang DAC every 6 mos.
>  Plus I
> > >>> am a MC
> > >>> > > > >> guy...I
> > >>> > > > >> > > like
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > stereo but given the choice i'd obviously
> rather be
> > >>> listening
> > >>> > > > >> in 5
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > channels.
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > Is there some technical limitation for this?
>  Given
> > >>> that
> > >>> > > > >> there are
> > >>> > > > >> > > lots
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > of
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > DSD capable receivers out there it seems kinda
> > >>> strange that
> > >>> > > > >> the
> > >>> > > > >> > > signal
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > couldn't be passed over HDMI.  In fact, I would
> > >>> think that's
> > >>> > > > >> what
> > >>> > > > >> > > the
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > content providers would prefer as it is
> > >>> 'protected'.  Any
> > >>> > > > >> ideas
> > >>> > > > >> > > why this
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > can't happen?
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 10:07 AM, realafrica <
> > >>> > > > >> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > wrote:
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > You would need a Mytek sound card for the DSD
> they
> > t; > > > > > > On Feb 16, 11:42 pm, August Bleed <
> > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > If you are using an HDMI sound card and a
> > >>> receiver that
> > >>> > > > >> does DSD
> > >>> > > > >> > > can
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > you
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > not output pure DSD or is this only for those
> > >>> with DSD DACs
> > >>> > > > >> via
> > >>> > > > >> > > USB
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > and/or
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > Firewire?  I am excited about these
> developments
> > >>> but it
> > >>> > > > >> seems
> > >>> > > > >> > > the only
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > way
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > to utilize these solutions is to have a usb
> DAC
> > >>> which
> > >>> > > > >> leaves out
> > >>> > > > >> > > the
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > multichannel folks and those who aren't into
> > >>> converted DSD
> > >>> > > > >> to
> > >>> > > > >> > > PCM.  I
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > haven't ever really been all that impressed
> with
> > >>> generic
> > >>> > > > >> results
> > >>> > > > >> > > from
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > conversions done outside the 'studio' so to
> > >>> speak.  Even
> > >>> > > > >> then
> > >>> > > > >> > > they seem
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > lacking the intricacies of their pure DSD
> > >>> counterparts
> > >>> > > > >> (even if
> > >>> > > > >> > > the
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > receiver only does a so so job or even
> converted
> > >>> to PCM
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > internally--mine
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > claims to do pure DSD and it sounds different
> > >>> when PCM is
> > >>> > > > >> output
> > >>> > > > >> > > but I
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > cant
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > be sure there isn't an internal conversion
> going
> > >>> on anyway.
> > >>> > > > >>  At
> > >>> > > > >> > > any
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > rate
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > has anyone found anything useful for AVR DSD
> > >>> reproduction
> > >>> > > > >> via
> > >>> > > > >> > > foobar or
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > anything else?
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 7:21 AM, realafrica <
> > >>> > > > >> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > wrote:
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > Peter in the scenario you describe above you
> > >>> will find
> > >>> > > > >> that
> > >>> > > > >> > > your
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > settings in foobar are to play 44.1 so you
> get
> > >>> 44.1 out
> > >>> > > > >> put.
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > You need to find the right place in foo to
> > >>> change this to
> > >>> > > > >> > > something
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > more appropriate for you.
> >
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > Open foo.
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > On the Library tab left click and select
> > >>> Configure, now
> > >>> > > > >> scroll
> > >>> > > > >> > > down
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > the left pane to find 'SACD'.....left click
> > >>> this and set
> > >>> > > > >> with:
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > ASIO Driver mode = PCM (As you are not
> using a
> > >>> DSD sound
> > >>> > > > >> card)
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > PCM volume = +0dB
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > PCM Samplerate = either 88200 (or 176400 if
> you
> > >>> think the
> > >>> > > > >> > > album you
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > are playing has music up there)
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > DSD"PCM Mode = Multistage (Floating-point)
> > >>> > > > >> > > > > > > > > Preferable area = to show you in foo the 5.1
> > >>> only
> >
> > >>> > ...
> >
> > >>> > read more »
> >
> > >>> --
> > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> > >>> Groups "SurroundSound" group.
> > >>> To post to this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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> > >>> For more options, visit this group at
> > >>>http://groups.google.com/group/SurroundSound
> >
> > >> --
> > >> August
> > >> Bleed, Inc.
> > >> Selling Art Is Tying Your Ego To a Leash And Walking It Like a Dog
> >
> > > --
> > > August
> > > Bleed, Inc.
> > > Selling Art Is Tying Your Ego To a Leash And Walking It Like a Dog
> >
> > --
> > August
> > Bleed, Inc.
> > Selling Art Is Tying Your Ego To a Leash And Walking It Like a Dog
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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-- 
August
Bleed, Inc.
Selling Art Is Tying Your Ego To a Leash And Walking It Like a Dog

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