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Re: [Nighthawk Lovers] Hybrid Bikes (side tangent) Allen Thomas Fri Feb 17 10:00:49 2012

the cost associated with batteries to provide 100 Amp hours at 96V would be
tremendous. Quick check on google it would take 30 of these
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Vehicle-Battery-CALB-LiFePO4-100Ah-EV-Batteries-4-pack-/170765730402#vi-content
connected
in serial for a total cost of $17,550, Plus hub motor, controller, charger,
and cabling. You are looking at the price of a prius, just to ride a
motorcycle on the highway for an hour. It wouldn't get me to work and back.

On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:27 AM, paul annen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> kurt, i think this is more of what you are looking at?
> http://www.electricmotordepot.com/products/EnerTrac-Hub-Motor-MHM602.html
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM, paul annen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> gerrr it helps if i paste the link
>> http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-Your-Own-ELECTRIC-MOTORCYCLE/
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM, paul annen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>>
>>> ironically this was in the next email i opened this morning. i havent
>>> read it yet, but i thought i would post
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:25 AM, paul annen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>>>
>>>> very true, and i also imagined that the reserve battery would also
>>>> function as the starting battery. with a 24v or higher system, i would
>>>> recomend replacing the starter with one made for the higher voltages.
>>>>
>>>> it might make the bike feel totally different, but what about putting
>>>> your hub motor in the front wheel?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Kurt Nolte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I was actually imagining it going the other way, not sure why I didn't
>>>>> make that clearer. I envision the motor pack also being the starting
>>>>> battery, as well as the reserve battery.
>>>>>
>>>>> One or two 12V cells would be devoted as the "stock" battery, and with
>>>>> a little coding one could even let the pack controller use the 12V
>>>>> alternator to recondition cells as life goes on. Any retrofit package for
>>>>> this would likely include a rewound alternator, however.
>>>>>
>>>>> I realize not all bikes have a rear drum hub, but then not all bikes
>>>>> have a chain drive either so that wouldn't be universal either. My target
>>>>> market is still largely drum rears, and it would be easy to swap a drum
>>>>> rear wheel on those with only disc brakes back there; there are many
>>>>> options, factory and aftermarket.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kurt.
>>>>> On Feb 16, 2012 12:35 PM, "paul annen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> you are correct that higher volts will require less amps to do the
>>>>>> same work (watts is watts is watts), and i do like the retrofit option, 
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> could also fairly easily use that rear break to do
>>>>>> some regenerative functions as well. but not all bikes have the option 
>>>>>> of a
>>>>>> rear wheel hub design, you might be better off driving off the existing
>>>>>> chain. this way you could also incorporate it as a chain tensioner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> are you imagining using the bikes charging system? we all know that
>>>>>> these are weak links in the vintage hondas (another side note was a 
>>>>>> thought
>>>>>> to have a small 30amp automotive alt mounted on the swing arm with a
>>>>>> sprocket to bypass the rectifier, spring pull the tension on the alt and
>>>>>> you have an automatic chain tensioner)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Kurt Nolte <
>>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sounds like a good idea for a Range Extended Battery Electric, which
>>>>>>> I feel is probably where the auto industry is going to head, for better 
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> worse.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I like the modular idea, especially the ability to add/subtract and
>>>>>>> hot-swap battery packs. One of my primary ideas would actually be to 
>>>>>>> devise
>>>>>>> a "retrofit" package to hybridize most bikes with minimally invasive 
>>>>>>> common
>>>>>>> parts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The core concept its the use of a "hub" or "internal stator" motor
>>>>>>> design, pressed into place of the rear drum brake. This allows for a 
>>>>>>> direct
>>>>>>> drive DC design, high torque and the ability to run electric-only for a
>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rear braking would now be electric, using a variable resistor to
>>>>>>> determine braking load, tied to the stock brake pedal. The motor
>>>>>>> controller's speed sensor would allow for ABS functionality without
>>>>>>> additional parts, as a bonus, and the whole motor assembly shouldn't add
>>>>>>> more than a pound or two, tops.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Using this, I'd also downsize the engine, generally by a 1/3 but
>>>>>>> obviously dependant on the individual bike. The motor torque added in 
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> bottom end of the range would allow riders to feel like the engine its 
>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>> bigger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that both motor and pack should operate at high voltage,
>>>>>>> preferably 36-72+V. This will allow for smaller, more flexible wires and
>>>>>>> also provide a beneficial bump in torque. The pack can still be be 
>>>>>>> charged
>>>>>>> by a 12V alternator using the right connections and isolator circuits. 
>>>>>>> High
>>>>>>> voltage packs are also better for the controllers, limiting max current
>>>>>>> flow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's it from me for now, when I'm on a proper keyboard I'll add
>>>>>>> more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Kurt
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2012 10:42 AM, "paul annen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > well, my idea was to use as many stock Honda parts as i could, so
>>>>>>> that i could market it to honda after. i also want to use a 24v system.
>>>>>>> this is to make the charging system easy. motor controller and basic
>>>>>>> battery set on the chassis with modular extra batteries in saddle bags 
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> a "trunk" with the engine and mobile charger (also modular). my
>>>>>>> engine/mobile charger is about as simple as it gets, small engine (can
>>>>>>> offer diffrent engine sets for gas, diesel, LP.... ) set at a constant 
>>>>>>> rpm
>>>>>>> coupled to a 24v automotive alt (yes they make them, mostly for bigger
>>>>>>> trucks).
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > the modular thought is that if your daily commute is short enough
>>>>>>> you dont need the extra weight (and wear) from the engine and batteries,
>>>>>>> simply plug it in to charge, but longer commutes the extra batteries 
>>>>>>> might
>>>>>>> be needed, for longer trips you will want to have the engine for "on the
>>>>>>> road" charging. yes, while cruising you will probably use more power 
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> the alt can keep up with, but if you stop every so often (and leave the
>>>>>>> charging engine running) you can build charge back up.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > my first concept was using standard car batteries, (i was 12, cut
>>>>>>> me some slack) now i am thinking that li ion makes a much better choice,
>>>>>>> but thats also where the modular design comes in, as battery tech 
>>>>>>> improves,
>>>>>>> you can upgrade without scrapping the whole bike.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > not that ive spent any time thinking about this at all.. comments
>>>>>>> and suggestions are welcome..
>>>>>>>
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