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[ruboss-framework] Re: the future of the framework Robert Malko Thu Jan 15 20:01:04 2009

I love love love the crap on the pillow!

Regarding the DSL/YAML thang, I guess it really depends on exactly how
readable and elegant you make the DSL, but I don't think reading
something from a YAML file looks that ugly, and it's an easy crossover
for people not big on using ruby.  I'm just leaning more towards the
YAML approach having more advantages.

On Jan 15, 3:19 pm, Peter Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Scott has his DSL at the level of the current model.yml.  That in
> itself is a win, since the DSL can be extended to support the
> remaining relationships easier than starting from scratch.
>
> Scott, can you commit your code to a new fork of Dima's (so that your
> current fork stays the way it is) and then let Dima and Robert know?
>
> Regarding pronunciation, "rest fulex" is starting to become my favorite too.
>
> For spelling, the most geeky way would have been RESTfulX, but that
> looks pretty ugly.  It could be restfulx, but that sounds like "rest
> fulks".  So, restfulX was the compromise.  We could have also gone
> with RestfulX, however.  Most named things are capitalized, and I
> don't want us to look pretentious.
>
> So, a poll:
> [a] restfulX
> [b] RestfulX
> [c] restfulx
> [d] RESTfulX
>
> Finally, here's a logo that an extremely talented designer we know
> made as a joke for us last year when we were making the Ruboss 
> logo:http://ruboss-framework.googlegroups.com/web/restfulcrud.png
>
> I have made a clean version for 
> restfulX:http://ruboss-framework.googlegroups.com/web/RestfulX.png
>
> If someone with more talent than me wants to play with it, the
> Illustrator file is 
> at:http://groups.google.com/group/ruboss-framework/web/RestfulX.ai
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2009 at 11:37 AM, Dima Berastau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Robert,
>
> > Thanks for your support as always! The name may very well be spelled
> > restfulx. I think it sounds nice as either "restful ex" or "rest
> > fulex". We can tweak recommended pronunciation a bit and it won't
> > affect code renaming anyway. The new name will take effect in 1.2 that
> > will also features synchronization and undo/redo among other things.
>
> > I've looked at your schema_to_yaml stuff and it's definitely looking
> > pretty nice. First of all, it's already going beyond the stated
> > objective of converting schema files to yaml format, which is great :)
> > We might think about bringing your stuff into the main code generation
> > gem for next release if you want to. I've been thinking about what
> > direction this should go in, too. I think there are 2 options:
>
> > 1. Stick with YAML and keep extending the syntax to accommodate more
> > configuration options, layouts, etc. All the things you are talking
> > about.
>
> > 2. Consider introducing a DSL which might be easier to read/maintain
> > as more options are added to code generation.
>
> > There are some good things about the YAML format. It's easy to read
> > and it's language agnostic. Meaning people that are only interested in
> > Flex/AIR and or Python code for example won't have a hard time getting
> > their heads around what looks like a different programming language.
>
> > On the other hand DSLs in Ruby are very easy on the eyes and you
> > certainly don't have to be Ruby guru to be able to digest what you
> > need to do to edit this file.
>
> > So it could definitely go both ways. I think code generation will
> > definitely be done in Ruby, it's a great language for that, but it can
> > go both ways with regards to actual model configuration. I think a DSL
> > might be easier to read and work with as code generation gets more
> > complex.
>
> > Thoughts?
>
> > Dima
>
> > On 15-Jan-09, at 4:10 AM, Robert Malko wrote:
>
> >> Guys,
>
> >> Congrats on the new name, and the direction of taking this towards the
> >> MIT category.  I think these are both two excellent steps in getting
> >> your product out to the masses.  I'd also like to thank Dima for
> >> putting in a lot of hard work on documentation already, as I've found
> >> it increasingly easy to find the help I'm looking for without
> >> bothering him.
>
> >> Let me dance around some random thoughts for a moment:
>
> >> restfulX is an interesting name, as it rolls off the tongue in a fun
> >> way, and it doesn't seem to be used for anything else out there right
> >> now.  As someone who considers himself to have some minor design
> >> skill, I would love to take a few stabs at coming up with some logo
> >> ideas but first ask if you think the restful nature of your product
> >> should be the main focal point.  To me, your tools are about a lot
> >> more than just the restful paradigm, AND to some degree, the fact that
> >> it's a Flex centric restful framework is very unique.  I'm just trying
> >> to stir some thought process of how you would envision communicating
> >> the word restfulX, as Peter's second recommendation of "rest fulex"
> >> speaks more words to me.
>
> >> Anyway, that was a lot of random babble.  On to some ideas for the
> >> product:
>
> >> I've been doing a lot of work on my schema_to_yaml plugin, and have
> >> come up with some interesting thoughts on better utilizing the
> >> model.yml file and a custom yml file to give lots of flex-ability (no
> >> pun intended) in creating your restfulX applications.  You can take a
> >> look athttp://github.com/malkomalko/schema_to_yaml/tree/master.  The
> >> main thing to note here is that I drew big inspiration from your
> >> model.yml examples where you would have a - HasMany: [Model1, Model2,
> >> Model3].  In my mind, I was thinking method definition's in yml.  This
> >> is how I figured out a good way to do HasManyThrough:
> >> (has_many_through: [permissions, roles]).  Utilizing this type of
> >> method definition, you can extract out the information and store it
> >> into an array.  All you have to do then, is check for the size of the
> >> array and you can do some pretty incredible things through code
> >> generation.
>
> >> I have many more ideas planned for this type of YAML Method Syntax (as
> >> I'm calling it), and really think some more work and fine tuning could
> >> really close a lot of gaps.  For instance, I have it now where you can
> >> set which attachment plugin you use via a settings file, throw in an
> >> attachment_field: [avatar] in your model.yml file (Or it'll just
> >> introspect your database if you already have a schema to dump out the
> >> proper model.yml) and know to give you all the right actionscript so
> >> file uploads just work immediately.
>
> >> My main goal with this, is to include ui code snippets/layouts, for a
> >> wide variety of ui-design-patterns.  Things like sortable tree grids,
> >> comment bubbles, parent > child selection... etc.  After building up a
> >> big library of these type of patterns, it would be really easy to
> >> throw together a very powerful generated application.
>
> >> Thoughts?  restfulX stays out of your way so much, and is so elegant
> >> and giving you the power to do whatever you need to hit a database/
> >> service, that I feel like this type of work to make the code
> >> generation top of the line, is a good logical next step.
>
> >> Cheers!
>
> >> On Jan 15, 1:46 am, Peter Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>> As a form of motivation, this is the current 
> >>> logo:http://ruboss-framework.googlegroups.com/web/restfulX_logo_large.png
>
> >>> It is driven by exactly one constraint: I can't draw!!!
>
> >>> So, this is a very low bar!
>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> -Peter
>
> >>> On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 10:31 PM, Dima Berastau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> I'd also like to say thanks to Peter for coming up with the name
> >>>> restfulX. I didn't even hesitate when he pinged me about it.
>
> >>>> This may have been lost in the longish emails flying around but: We
> >>>> are looking for a logo for restfulX. so if you'd like to try your
> >>>> hand
> >>>> at something visual do give it a shot.
>
> >>>> Thanks in advance,
> >>>> Dima
>
> >>>> On 14-Jan-09, at 9:51 PM, Peter Armstrong wrote:
>
> >>>>> Hi all,
>
> >>>>> I'd just like to say thanks to everyone here for their support of
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> Ruboss Framework in 2008.  I'd also like to say a huge thanks to
> >>>>> Dima
> >>>>> for the massive amount of work he has done getting the framework to
> >>>>> this point.
>
> >>>>> 2009 is going to be a great year for restfulX.  Besides the
> >>>>> evolution
> >>>>> of the framework that Dima discussed, there's going to be a renewed
> >>>>> focus on documentation as well.  Yeah, the book will actually get
> >>>>> new
> >>>>> chapters.
>
> >>>>> Now that the framework is MIT-licensed, there's now no longer any
> >>>>> license issues with using the framework in your commercial
> >>>>> projects.
> >>>>> Also, since the MIT license is the license that Rails uses, you
> >>>>> don't
> >>>>> have any additional explaining to do to your manager...
>
> >>>>> The naming of everything (like, for example, the name of this
> >>>>> group)
> >>>>> will all get updated in the days and weeks ahead.
>
> >>>>> Regarding the copyright, what we're doing is simple: Dima's name is
> >>>>> going on the copyright since he's the lead developer of restfulX
> >>>>> (and
> >>>>> since there's no "restfulX Foundation").  Putting the lead
> >>>>> developer's
> >>>>> name on the copyright instead of Ruboss's name emphasizes the
> >>>>> community nature of the project–this is also similar to how Rails
> >>>>> is
> >>>>> more closely associated with DHH than with 37signals.
>
> >>>>> To our clients: Ruboss is still 100% focused on consulting work
> >>>>> using
> >>>>> the framework; the framework just has a different name now.
>
> >>>>> Finally, a note about pronunciation: the official pronunciation is
> >>>>> "restful ex".  A close second is "rest fulex", which emphasizes the
> >>>>> ties to Flex.  But whatever you do, don't say "rest fulks"!
>
> >>>>> Thanks for your support of restfulX and of Ruboss!
>
> >>>>> -Peter
>
> >>>> Dima Berastau
> >>>> CTO and Co-Founder, Ruboss Technology Corporation (www.ruboss.com)
>
> >>> --
> >>> Peter Armstrong
> >>> CEO and Co-Founder, Ruboss Technology Corporation (www.ruboss.com)
> >>> Author: Flexible Rails (http://manning.com/armstrong), Enterprise
> >>> Flexible Rails (http://manning.com/armstrong2/) and Hello! Flex 4
> >>> (http://manning.com/armstrong3)
>
> > Dima Berastau
> > CTO and Co-Founder, Ruboss
>
> ...
>
> read more »
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